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WarbossKurgan

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I mentioned this to Phil, Adam, Dave and Viktor at lunchtime today, but I thought I'd post about it as well so we can work out the details.

For the next campaign I propose we each make a Pit Fighter model and come up with a name for our creations. These would be used in place of the anonymous Pit Fitghers in the "Sold to the Pits" injury table result (and possibly in other circumstances, maybe we could add the ability to send captured enemy models to the Pits, instead of ransoming them?).

The Named Pit Fighters would gain experience, stat advances and skills in the same way as Heroes and use the Hero's Serious Injury table, so an Out-of-Action result wouldn't be the end of them.

They would get stronger over the course of the campaign and following the career of each Pit Fighter in a sort of sports-pages-like way could add an interesting element to weekly news letters.

Thoughts?

Dazza

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Sounds like an excellent idea. There's already been numerous pit fights, not to mention Tim's Hero who rolled multiple wounds and was sent to fight at least twice in a row!

WarbossKurgan

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I may even try to make a medium-sized (i.e. about 12" across) terrain piece of a Fighting Pit so the fights look a bit more cinematic! Or... Maybe just half of a Fighting Pit as a theatrical back-drop for the photos...

Andy

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There's a whole game dedicated to pit fighting in Mordheim. Sounds like it could be fun.

Rules:

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zelophahad

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We could add 'The Pits' as a map location...

WarbossKurgan

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Phil: I was thinking about that - can I suggest it's a location that can't be controlled by a player?

Andy: is that the one that was in White Dwarf? I vaguely remember that being a bit over-complex but I'll have another look.

Edit:
Ah yes, the hex-board

I think I'd rather stick with the simple rules from the injury table. I don't mean this to take over from the main games, its' just meant to be a little interesting aside.
I've already got an idea for a Pirate Pit Fighter!

One idea we could use from those rules is a choice of weaponry though - it could be a bit dull if they all have to have morning stars!

zelophahad

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WarbossKurgan wrote:
Phil: I was thinking about that - can I suggest it's a location that can't be controlled by a player?

Yes, that could work, especially if we somehow had a parallel pit-fighting championship going on - the warband who's 'champion'
wins gets the points for that location.

The Beanbag

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Or an underground betting ring, where warbands can bet on the outcome of a fight?

WarbossKurgan

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I like the sound of that Adam!

The Beanbag

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Andy does this mean the halfling pit fighter will make an appearance?

Andy

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Never thought of that. I guess he will.

Godfather Viktor

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I worked out the ideas Saul and me were discussing this evening for our pit fighting madness. I've also added a few extra things that came to my mind. As always have a read and tell me what d'you think of them!

Pit fights in Vercuso

Set-up
Fights take place on 12” diameter arena. Before deploying their fighters each player must set-up an obstacle (max 4” long and minimum 1” high), 2 pit traps (large infantry base size) and 2 mud puddles (large infantry base size) anywhere in the arena. Dice off to see who goes first.

Deployment
Roll off to see who deploys first. Warriors must be deployed at least 4” away from the centre of the arena and 8” away from each other. Warriors can not be deployed on top of pit traps and mud puddles.

Starting the fight
To establish who will strike first in the first round of combat both players secretly choose one of the following options.

Brace: the warrior takes a defensive stance. It will not move, will strike last but will inflict a -1 to hit penalty to his opponent.
Charge: the warrior charges his opponent without opening his own guard too much. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong). He will strike before opponents who braced themselves, after opponents who charged headlong or in initiative order against opponents that charged as well (roll off in the case of a tie).
Headlong charge: the warrior throws himself violently at the opponent. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong) and will get a +1S bonus. He will strike before opponents that braced themselves or charged, in initiative order if the opponent charged headlong as well (roll off in the case of a tie).

Before rolling to hit players must declare if they want to wound the opponent or push him back. If they decide to wound, work out the attack as normal. If they decide to push the opponent back no damage is inflicted but on a successful to wound roll the opponent will be moved 1” directly away. If the opponent didn’t attack yet he will loose his chance. Move onto the subsequent round of combat

Subsequent rounds
Fight in initiative order (roll off in the case of a tie).
If fighters are unengaged you may declare a charge (normal rules apply) or decide to move (march-blocking applies).
If fighters are engaged you may decide either to try hitting (choosing to wound or push back as above) or to escape from combat.
If trying to escape take a Leadership test. If passed, the warrior can move up to double his normal Movement rate away from combat in any direction. If he fails, his opponent is allowed to make 1 automatic hit against the warrior who is trying to escape, and the fleeing warrior (provided he survives) will run 2D6" directly away from combat.

Pit traps and mud puddles
If a warrior voluntary moves or is pushed over a pit trap or a mud puddle he has to take an Initiative test. A -1 penalty applies if the fighter has been pushed. If the test is passed the warrior managed to keep his feet. If the test is failed the following effects apply.

Pit traps: the warrior is treated as stunned even if he has more than one wound left.
Mud puddles: the warrior is treated as knocked-down even if he has more than one wound left.

Obstacles and arena’s edges
They count as impassable terrain. If obstacles are high enough they can also block line of sight. If a warrior is pushed against any of them he will take a S3 hit that can not inflict Criticals.

Experience (for named Pit Fighters only)

+1 for participating in the fight
+1 for winning in the fight
+1 for successfully avoiding a pit trap or mud puddle (can be received only once per fight)
+1 for successfully escaping from combat (can be received only once per fight)

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Last edited by Godfather Viktor (2010-03-17 01:20:43)

Totem

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Godfather Viktor wrote:
Brace: the warrior takes a defensive stance. It will not move, will strike last but will inflict a -1 to hit penalty to his opponent.
Charge: the warrior charges his opponent without opening his own guard too much. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong). He will strike before opponents who braced themselves, after opponents who charged headlong or in initiative order against opponents that charged as well (roll off in the case of a tie).
Headlong charge: the warrior throws himself violently at the opponent. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong) and will get a +1S bonus. He will strike before opponents that braced themselves or charged, in initiative order if the opponent charged headlong as well (roll off in the case of a tie).

Is there any disadvantage to a headlong charge?

The way it is currently written, i don't see why anyone would ever declare a normal charge?

WarbossKurgan

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Good stuff Viktor but Joe has a point. There needs to be a risk involved in a headlong, maybe a 1 in 6 chance of falling (knocked down) before you get to fight?

Godfather Viktor

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Good point about the headlong, guys! I wouldn't go for a chance of being knocked-down before getting to fight. Rather, as the warrior exposes himself a +1 to hit bonus for the opponent.
Some other ideas come to my mind so here you have an update!

Pit fights in Vercuso

Set-up
Fights take place on 12” diameter arena. Before deploying their fighters each player must set-up an obstacle (max 4” long and minimum 1” high), 2 pit traps (large infantry base size) and 2 mud puddles (large infantry base size) anywhere in the arena. Dice off to see who goes first.

Deployment
Roll off to see who deploys first. Warriors must be deployed at least 4” away from the centre of the arena and 8” away from each other. Warriors can not be deployed on top of pit traps and mud puddles.

Starting the fight
To establish who will strike first in the first round of combat both players secretly choose one of the following manouvers.

Evade: the warrior moves 1" back (thus making any charge attempt fail). If the opponent is still in range a pistol or a throwing weapon can be used addding a further -1 to hit penalty for shooting at a charging enemy.
Brace: the warrior takes a defensive stance. It will not move, will strike last but will inflict a -1 to hit penalty to his opponent. If both fighters choose to brace themselves they will move 2" to their right, still facing each other and will have to choose a monouver again. Brace can not be choosen two times.
Charge: the warrior charges his opponent without opening his own guard too much. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong). He will strike before opponents who braced themselves, after opponents who charged headlong or in initiative order against opponents that charged as well (roll off in the case of a tie).
Headlong charge: the warrior throws himself violently at the opponent. He will move towards the opponent (8” if the opponent braced himself, 4” if the opponent charged or charged headlong) and will get a +1S bonus but will grant a +1 on the hit roll to the opponent. He will strike before opponents that braced themselves or charged, in initiative order if the opponent charged headlong as well (roll off in the case of a tie).

Fear in pit fights: fear works slightly differently in pit fights. If facing a fear-causing warrior take a Ld test before choosing your manouver. If the test is failed you can only brace yourself (the usual penalty for failing a fear check when charged still applies). This is the only fear check that must be taken during a pit fight.

Before rolling to hit players must declare if they want to wound the opponent or push him back. If they decide to wound, work out the attack as normal. If they decide to push the opponent back no damage is inflicted but on a successful to wound roll the opponent will be moved 1” or 2" if a critical was rolled directly away. If the opponent didn’t attack yet he will loose his chance. Move onto the subsequent round of combat

Subsequent rounds
Fight in initiative order (roll off in the case of a tie).
If fighters are unengaged you may declare a charge (normal rules apply) or decide to move (march-blocking applies) and then use one of your ranged weapons or cast a spell (all normal rules apply).
If fighters are engaged you may decide either to try hitting (choosing to wound or push back as above) or to escape from combat.
If trying to escape take a Leadership test. If passed, the warrior can move up to double his normal Movement rate away from combat in any direction. If he fails, his opponent is allowed to make 1 automatic hit against the warrior who is trying to escape, and the fleeing warrior (provided he survives) will run 2D6" directly away from combat.

Pit traps and mud puddles
If a warrior voluntary moves or is pushed over a pit trap or a mud puddle he has to take an Initiative test. A -1 penalty applies if the fighter has been pushed. If the test is passed the warrior managed to keep his feet. If the test is failed the following effects apply.

Pit traps: the warrior is treated as stunned even if he has more than one wound left.
Mud puddles: the warrior is treated as knocked-down even if he has more than one wound left.

Obstacles and arena’s edges
They count as impassable terrain. If obstacles are high enough they can also block line of sight. If a warrior is pushed against any of them he will take a S3 hit that can not inflict Criticals. A warrior defending an obstacle can only be hit on a 6 and can automatically escape from combat (no experience is gained in this case).

Experience (for named Pit Fighters only)

+1 for participating in the fight
+1 for winning in the fight
+1 for successfully avoiding a pit trap or mud puddle (can be received only once per fight)
+1 for successfully escaping from combat (can be received only once per fight)

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Last edited by Godfather Viktor (2010-03-17 12:25:38)

WarbossKurgan

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Cool. That works for me.

Now I have to make 4 traps, 4 puddles, 2 obstacles and the Fighting Pit!

Godfather Viktor

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What about adding options for different equipments for the named pit fighters?
The one in the rulebook has a morning star (10gc), a spiked gauntlet (buckler 10gc + extra weapon 5gc as an estimate) and helmet (10gc). This makes up for about 35gc worth of equiment.
So we can either work out a list of fixed equipment combinations each worth 35gc or let people free to purchase stuff up to that value.
Thoughts?

WarbossKurgan

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I was just thinking about this. It would be dull if all of them had to have morning start and spiked gauntlet!
35gc of common purchases sounds good to me!

We could say that the only way to get the spiked gauntlet is to take the standard kit? (since it states that other Heroes can't use it!)

The Beanbag

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Wow, we're really going all out here for this Pit Fighting eh?

Some questions -

1) Choosing manouevres - it says Brace cannot be chosen twice. Do you mean cannot be chosen twice in a row?

2) First round of combat definition - the first round of combat refers to the first round in an ongoing base-to-base struggle. If players choose to break from combat or push away an opponent then the next time they engage will start a new first round of combat. Is that right? Once engaged in combat, there is no need to decide what action to take other than escape, push or wound?

3) Can you choose to cast a spell in the very first turn if you evade?

4) How is equipment choice to be decided ie any race restrictions?

5) Each pit fighter starts with the same stats I take it (M4 WS4 BS3 S4 T4 W1 14 A2 Ld8)? So a halfling and an ogre are considered to be equally tough and quick? Or are we assuming all pit fighters are human?

OK I'm done. This is going to be fun!

WarbossKurgan

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1) Yes, I think so
2) Yes, I think so
3) Yes, I think so
4) I think we were going to go for just common items but...
5) I was assuming all Pit Fighters would be human - maybe that is a mistake? It would be cool to have a range of races as well as weapons...

Davespaceman

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I think we need a few different races in the pits to add to the fun I fancy making an ogre and a human.
raise and lower the stats as applicable. you could increase the rewards for taking on the tougher opponents.

What are we doing about sending guys to the pits? as 1 in 36 is quite a rare occurrence for all this work

For ideas see

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The Beanbag

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It depends on what we choose to make of this genius idea.
The Pits can be an expanded Serious Injury roll scenario where we control the fight more with Victors experimental rules.
It can be an entire location within Vercuso - the arena being brought back to the masses as a cheap publicity stunt by the rulers with dedicated pit fighter characters as has been suggested, creating a parallel self contained sub-campaign.
It could be a location where we voluntarily send warband characters to gain some experience and interesting scars, not just limited to pit fighter characters or the right serious injury roll.
It could be randomly generated fights with random outcomes, to bet on with fiscal abandon like vast, bloated, financially imprudent children!
Dave, the possibilities are endless...

Godfather Viktor

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The Beanbag wrote:
Wow, we're really going all out here for this Pit Fighting eh?

Some questions -

1) Choosing manouevres - it says Brace cannot be chosen twice. Do you mean cannot be chosen twice in a row?

2) First round of combat definition - the first round of combat refers to the first round in an ongoing base-to-base struggle. If players choose to break from combat or push away an opponent then the next time they engage will start a new first round of combat. Is that right? Once engaged in combat, there is no need to decide what action to take other than escape, push or wound?

3) Can you choose to cast a spell in the very first turn if you evade?

4) How is equipment choice to be decided ie any race restrictions?

5) Each pit fighter starts with the same stats I take it (M4 WS4 BS3 S4 T4 W1 14 A2 Ld8)? So a halfling and an ogre are considered to be equally tough and quick? Or are we assuming all pit fighters are human?

OK I'm done. This is going to be fun!

.

WarbossKurgan wrote:
1) Yes, I think so
2) Yes, I think so
3) Yes, I think so
4) I think we were going to go for just common items but...
5) I was assuming all Pit Fighters would be human - maybe that is a mistake? It would be cool to have a range of races as well as weapons...

Love to have that much feedback!
To throw my 2 cents in:
1 & 2)While I was writing the rules I thought the secret choice of manouvers should take place only during the very first round of combat, while subsequent charges should have been resolved according to the normal rules. So, there could have been a maximum of two choices, and only if both players decided to brace. However, the idea of choosing manouvers everytime you want to engage the opponent is much more fun, so it is a yes for that!
3)Of course you can cast spells. Yet you can't fire a bow/crossbow/sling/handgun/blunderbuss/hunting rifle. After all you're evading from a close combat so you aren't expect to get your big, clumpsy shooting weapon ready.
4 & 5)I would say that named Pit Fighters should be human only and they can only get access to common items. This will help keep things balanced and would make for a much easier comparison of progresses. Also named Pit Fighters are the only ones that can be used when a Sent to the Pits! results is rolled by the opposing warband player.

But the idea of having non-human pit fighters and exotic equiopments is fun too and I wouldn't dismiss it, so this takes me to the next point:

Davespaceman wrote:
What are we doing about sending guys to the pits? as 1 in 36 is quite a rare occurrence for all this work

I would say that after each game any warband can elect one of its heroes or hired swords (not taken out of action during the game) to go to the Pits and have a fight. If any of the other players accept the challenge he can choose to send in either his named Pit Fighter, a hero or a hired sword (not taken out of action during their last game). Named Pit Fighters get the experience I indicated in the rules above while heroes and hired swords will be rewarded/punished as per the rules in the serious injuries tables. In this way we can have fighters and equipment from all the different races having a go into the Pits, while at the same time only facing human pit fighters when a Sent to the Pits results is rolled.

Andy

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We could all meet up in a car park and kick the shit out of each other...

The Beanbag

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Calm down Andrew

Added 03.17.2010 19:48:39:
Added 03.17.2010 19:41:17:
And Saul would win anyhow

Flame On Forum

Sent to the Pits!

Re: Sent to the Pits!

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WarbossKurgan wrote:

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Re: Sent to the Pits!

Godfather Viktor wrote:

Re: Sent to the Pits!

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The Beanbag wrote:

WarbossKurgan wrote:

Davespaceman wrote:

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