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Exodite

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Just got back from the mayhem tournament, had a good weekend.

I took a last minute place off Harry as he had to work, so I had to use his army list as you had to pre-submit.

The event had heavy comp and painting scores, but I managed to win Best General, finish 3rd overall (only missing out on winning by 1pt, as first and second were tied 1pt ahead of me, and then generalship was used as tie breaker.)

Also the biggest suprise was winning best team. The only other person I really knew was Rob, so we teamed up and were joined by the other 2 individuals at the event. We then won, to everyone's suprise, including the organisers.

skcuzzlebumm

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Congrats Josh, I heard about Rob winning the Team event from Brad and assumed it was the Good, the Bad and the Dudley. Guess we can chalk that one up as a Flame On win eh?

So did the comp factor heavily into things? I got the impression from Rob that he thought so, what with his list only getting 4 points whilst comparably cheesey armies like yours getting near maximum.

Exodite

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Congrats Josh, I heard about Rob winning the Team event from Brad and assumed it was the Good, the Bad and the Dudley. Guess we can chalk that one up as a Flame On win eh?.

Well our team name was Flame On Dudley, and we got a huge trophy for winning best team. I have the trophy because we couldn't decide who should have it, so in the end we diced for it.

skcuzzlebumm wrote:
So did the comp factor heavily into things? I got the impression from Rob that he thought so, what with his list only getting 4 points whilst comparably cheesey armies like yours getting near maximum.

Well as I say I wasn't using my normal list, I was using Harry's. I got 12 out 20 for comp, which is still loosing 8 tournament points, the average was 16, and there were quite a few spacewolf and guard lists all round the top who had 16-20 pts, which were still very hard lists.

There were a lot of painting points as well, which I got average scores on, that is all I expect with my orks, but they did make a difference.

kiranreddy

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What were the armies in the top 10 Josh?

Exodite

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I don't know the top 10, the results were not handed out, they will be emailed out later.

Top 3 Generalship:

1st: Orks
2nd: Marines
3rd: Space Wolves

Top 3 overall:

1st: Space Wolves
2nd: Space Wolves
3rd: Orks

kiranreddy

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I guess comp really helps the space wolves!

Congrats on top General Josh

Nature Boy

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Congrats Josh, I heard about Rob winning the Team event from Brad and assumed it was the Good, the Bad and the Dudley. Guess we can chalk that one up as a Flame On win eh?

So did the comp factor heavily into things? I got the impression from Rob that he thought so, what with his list only getting 4 points whilst comparably cheesey armies like yours getting near maximum.

Yeah, the comp scores didn't work. The problem with their comp system is that it assumes that troops are the weakest section of the army list, which for some armies (orks, space wolves, CSM) simply isn't the case.

My Fatecrusher got hammered on comp score (4 out of 20!) which gave away at least 8 points on everyone else. Which meant even though I won 5 games out of 6 I barely made the top ten! There is no way my army is 8 points more cheesy than double lash, Thunder Term spam or 4 Battlewagons!

Well done Josh, the Dudley - Flame on alliance did excellently!

And in future I'll talk Harry into taking Burnas!

Mad Larkin Uk

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Congrats, i wanted to go to this but then i saw the comp and noticed it was a joke. You can make the cheesiest ork lists, and only break the comp by taking Ghazgul for -2 points. Similarly, i made a disgusting space wolf list, basically the same as Killswitches army but losing 2 rune priests and getting more grey hunters (5 units maxed with goodines) In rhinos for no penalty scores.

as i said in my rant on some forum about it, the best way to comp imo is to have a panel that judge presubmitted lists into bands, like the CC. That also means that game 1 can be made to be a bit fairer. :-)

fleshtearer

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The comp score was a bit sub par but what really made it unballanced was that it was added at the start and not the end. so for rob with his...4 in the second round he played some one with a big comp score that actually lost the first round, where as he won his first game? crazy!

I was suprised we won best team...what a bunch of missfits lol. Always good to meet new players tho. @ josh: i thought that 2 was gunna screw you on the dice off for the trophy lol.

I managed 2nd generalship with duel raider thundernators and 4th overal,l 1 points behind josh and 2 behind the winner.

Tim

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Last edited by fleshtearer (2010-04-12 12:06:37)

skcuzzlebumm

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Ah but then you meet people like me who really don't think sub-comp works as time and time again at every sub-comp tourney I, or someone I know, has been to the ball is always dropped and lists are banded incorrectly.

The absolute best comp I have ever seen is that used in Sweden at Gothcon, they had a pretty hefty but well considered document that laid out comp for each specific codex. It was very well thought out and covered everything. Anything short of that will always fail one way or another. Even our comp at BotC is not always perfect.

Exodite

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fleshtearer wrote:
I was suprised we won best team...what a bunch of missfits lol. Always good to meet new players tho. @ josh: i thought that 2 was gunna screw you on the dice off for the trophy lol.

Haha so did I, though then Rob rolled the 1 so it was all good.

fleshtearer wrote:
I managed 2nd generalship with duel raider thundernators and 4th overal,l 1 points behind josh and 2 behind the winner.

Tim

Well done on your placing.

fleshtearer

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cheers, and well done 2 you and rob too.

kong

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Well done all.

I must admit I took one look at the rulespack and decided not to bother.

Nature Boy

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Yeah, the comp system they used was poor and some of the missions were slightly dubious, but it was still fun and they had lovely shiny trophies that I had to give away to Josh when I rolled a 1 in the "who gets to keep it" roll off. ACTUAL proof that the dice gods hate me.

Exodite

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Nature Boy wrote:
but it was still fun and they had lovely shiny trophies that I had to give away to Josh when I rolled a 1 in the "who gets to keep it" roll off. ACTUAL proof that the dice gods hate me.

Haha, I thought you had it for sure when I rolled a 2.

kiranreddy

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Nature Boy wrote:
Yeah, the comp system they used was poor and some of the missions were slightly dubious,.

Also that mission where you can move an objective around is really bad (did they use it?), played it at there last event in london and suggested a change, but mayhem killpoints is a good mission imo, definietly better than normal KP's

Nature Boy

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kiranreddy wrote:
Nature Boy wrote:
Yeah, the comp system they used was poor and some of the missions were slightly dubious,.
Also that mission where you can move an objective around is really bad (did they use it?), played it at there last event in london and suggested a change, but mayhem killpoints is a good mission imo, definietly better than normal KP's

Yeah the moving objective mission was there and it was crap.

Mayhem Kill points was great and should be adopted by more tournaments. I hate the fact that a monolith is worth the same as a trukk!

skcuzzlebumm

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What's this Mayhem Kill Points then?

Exodite

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
What's this Mayhem Kill Points then?

every 100pts is a killpoint, so the more expensive a unit the more killpoints it is worth.

1-100pts = 1kp
101-200pts = 2kps
201-300pts = 3kps
301-400pts = 4kps

etc......

So for example a landraider is 250pts, so is worth 3kps, while a rhino is 35pts, so is worth 1kp.

skcuzzlebumm

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That actually sounds very sensible, in fact much more sensible that the GW version. I don't actually see a downside to it whatsoever. It balances the low KP elite armies against the units spam ones.

mmmmmm random idea but how would people feel to that over GW Kill Points at BotC?

Exodite

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I think when you compare GW's version with this version by itself then it seems the obvious choice to choose Mayhem's method.

However I actually think GW's killpoint mission is quite a good balancing mission when you use it in conjunction with the other 2 missions.

The reason is because armies with lots of units tend to be very good at the objective missions, for example if you have to play against a trukk based speed freaks list they have so many fast units that it is very easy for them to capture or at least contest. Elite armies normally find it more difficult. Then with killpoints elite armies benefit, and armies with lots of units find the mission harder.

With the mayhem system most armies had very similar kp totals, so it doesn't work as well as a balancing mission.

Greater Harlequin

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I think Josh has a good point there. In isolation the Mayhem version sounds better, but in the context of the standard 3 missions the GW version brings balance.

As regards comp I have generally avoided tourneys where it has a significant effect. Even with Botch where its a fairly light touch, it has took the shine off my Daemon list by banning a second hq if you take a named character (stopping me using my Scribes as I firmly believe the daemon list needs two hq's to compete). I don't think there will ever be a system that suits everyone.

bloodreaper

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just a quick question with the new blood angels if an assault marine unit takes a drop pod its free because its 35pts off. would it still be worth a kill point as that table starts as one?

i really do like that mission style, they had something very similar at the previous fantasy gt were you got different kp's per type of unit you killed eg. a lord was 3, hero was 1, rare was 3, special was 2 and it was an extra kill point if it was a special charecter so gayweaver was 4. it worked really well compared to the other mission. although josh makes a very good point on the balance of missions.

skcuzzlebumm

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Fair point Josh.

So what you are suggesting is that for it to be fair all the missions should be weighted thus?

i.e and objective is worth a similar level of points based on the points value of the troops choice holding it?

Sounds even better

Probably too drastic and late for BotC, but I might try this, after some tweaks, for Ragnarok in August.

harrytheschmuck

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im gutted i couldnt make it, just started a new job so couldnt risk taking the weekend off even though its ony a few weeks in i hate it.

i undertand about the comp score was a bad idea, and overall people were not overly impressed with the event because of it, it cost £40!! drinks on you the josh lol

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