Flame On Forum

commie bob

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since the 3rd gurds tank regiment [ulani] will cost so little, it only makes sense to then upgrade it to steel legion afterwards. been working on a list but not sure about it, looking for ideas and tips.

so here is 3k to start off with.

regimental HQ
1 supreme commander unit
12 infantry units
7 chimeras
1 hydra flak tank

guards tank company
1 leman russ vanquisher
9 leman russ
1 hydra flak tank

guards super heavy tank company
2 shadowsword super heavy tanks
1 baneblade super heavy tank

4 sentinels

4 sentinels

4 vultures

shadowsword super heavy tank

artillery battery
3 manticores

2 thunderbolts

2 thunderbolts

that should be 3k, went for the super heavy company cause its beefy and looks cool, the baneblade was just in case someone gets close and i need a few more shots.
not sure if this list is any good though so if anyone has suggestions that would be good.

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Last edited by commie bob (2010-10-18 17:31:45)

Evil and Chaos

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Conventional wisdom from the tournament circuit has it that Russ Companies are very hard to use well. It'd probably be easier to weild a Reaver Titan.

Rug

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I'm sure Si will be sharing his Russ wisdom! He seems to be able to make the things work! But it is hard to go wrong with a Reaver.

commie bob

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yeah he is good with the russes, reaver sounds good but i'd rather stick with the old soviet theme i think, can always make titans in the future. and if i take the reaver instead of the tank co then i loose a bit more of my AA.

apart from the BTS worries is there anything else that i should think about changing?

commie bob

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so wrote this new version, bit different i know but hopefully with a bit of luck some borrowing i can take some sort of guard to the GT. this is my second attempt.

regimental HQ
1 supreme commander unit, 12 infantry units, 7 chimeras, 1 hydra

4 sentinels
4 sentinels

super heavy tank platoon
3 shadowswords

3 manticores
4 vultures

infantry company
1 commander unit, 12 infantry units

reaver titan

2 thunderbolts
2 thunderbolts

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Last edited by commie bob (2010-10-20 13:10:19)

Curis

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Baneblades, what are those? I've never heard of that tank before?

Not going to split your super-heavies down to get more activations?

commie bob

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can't split them otherwise its illegal list, edited for 3 shadowswords though. what do you think.

Jeridian

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Aye, Baneblades are a bit rubbish.

If you must have one I'd suggest having it as the independent Super-Heavy and have the Shadowswords as a unit of 3.
Currently, you'll be losing the Baneblades (or 3rd Shadowsword) shot with the Shadowsword Company reducing your effectively by 1/3rd.
If someone get's close, they're likely to get you in an Engagement- in which case 3 4+ instead of 3 5+ is not going to make a difference (9 wounds on 4+ re-roll and a Commissar will).
If someone get's close to shoot, you have the rest of the IG army to deal with them, the Shadowswords are your Titan-Hunters, pure and simple.

With the Baneblade on it's own, it can be a cheap(ish) formation that you can aggressively push forward. If the opponent ignores it to deal with better targets it will be annoying turn 3 when it quietly sits on objectives, perhaps even engaging a small enemy formation.

On the Reaver, it is the ideal BTS, not to expensive, arguably more resilient than a Tank Company, auto-Fearless, etc.
But it's IMO boring and predictable. A Leman Russ Tank Company is iconic of the IG, you might as well take a Space Marine army with no Tacticals...
Joking aside, they can be used well, they just require caution, keeping a healthy distance from the enemy and having support nearby- ideally at 3 points around them so that any engagement takes a ton of supporting fire. Don't rumble next to a measly Infantry Company like I did against Richard Laking at Britcon...

Evil and Chaos

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Baneblades are rubbish if you use the original stats, still pretty lame duck if you use the EpicUK stats, but if you use the NetEA/WYSIWYG stats they're actually well worth their points.

'Course, if you intended to play in tournaments, you'll want to use EUK stats, and most likely simply avoid Baneblades.

regimental HQ
1 supreme commander unit, 12 infantry units, 7 chimeras, 1 hydra

4 sentinels
4 sentinels

super heavy tank platoon
3 shadowswords

3 manticores
4 vultures

infantry company
1 commander unit, 12 infantry units

reaver titan

2 thunderbolts
2 thunderbolts

I tend to find Shadowsword Companies somewhat overkill... your opponent will do his best to hide ideal targets from the Shadowswords, so they'll generally end up picking on battlewagons or Rhinos, etc.

With the Reaver Titan and the Vultures in the army you already have a strong anti-tank punch, so I'd look at just having 1 or at most 2 Shadowswords to back them up, rather than a full company of Shadowswords... you risk unbalancing your army taking too many anti-tank weapons IMO.

I'd probably look at swapping the second Thunderbolt squadron for 3x Hydras, as you're light on ground based AA right now, and Hydras help to drive off Thunderhawks, Vampires, and Landas.

As your opponent, with only 2 fast formations in your army (Reg Hq. and Vultures), and 3 weak formations in your army (Sentinels x2, Manticores) I'd look to neutralise the Manticores, Vultures, and Sentinels first.

That would leave you short on activations with only one fast formation left (The Reg HQ) which can't hold up a battle line all on its own. So by hitting your 4 weak/small formations I'd look to gain an activation advantage, then out-maneuver your remaining slower (For the most part) formations.

Personally, I think the Steel Legion list works best with a solid core of fast formations (My typical lists are most often built around a core of 1 Reg HQ, 1 Mech Inf Co, and 1 Storm Troopers in Valkyries platoon, which gives 3 solid and fast formations), or with a large amount of cheap formations (Lots of basic inf co's and artillery/sentinel formations).

Hope my rambling helps some.
.
.

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2010-10-22 00:43:20)

Tiny-Tim

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Sit down young'ins, old man going to speak

When EA first can out I used to run a 3 shadowsword super heavy tank formation, this coupled with deathstrikes and a formation of vultures was usually more than suitable to take out any titan BTS and helped me win many a game. Large titans have fallen out of favour for some reason and I now find that using 2 Baneblades and a Shadowsword is much better as an anchor of one of my flanks.

commie bob

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right so back to the drawing board, got this up to 11 activations.

2nd guards rifle regiment
Steel Legion (Epic UK v301209) 3000pts

Regimental HQ
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, hydra
550

Vulture Squadron
4 Vultures
300

Sentinel Squadron
4 Sentinels
100

Sentinel Squadron
4 Sentinels
100

Infantry Company
Commander, 12 Infantry, 4 fire support teams
350

Infantry Company
Commander, 12 Infantry
250

Super-heavy Tank Platoon
Shadowsword
200

Super-heavy Tank Platoon
Shadowsword
200

Flak Battery
3 Hydra
150

Reaver Class Titan
650

Thunderbolt Fighters
2 Thunderbolts
150

or totally different is option B which is similar to what si took to stockade

2nd guards rifle regiment, 3000 POINTS
Steel Legion (Epic UK v301209)
==================================================
REGIMENTAL HQ - 550
Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera
+Hydra

INFANTRY COMPANY - 300
Commander, 12 Infantry
+Hydra

SENTINEL SQUADRON - 100
4 Sentinels

SENTINEL SQUADRON - 100
4 Sentinels

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON - 200
Shadowsword

SUPER-HEAVY TANK PLATOON - 200
Shadowsword

VULTURE SQUADRON - 300
4 Vultures

TANK COMPANY - 700
9x Leman Russ
Vanquisher
+Hydra

ARTILLERY BATTERY (MANTICORE) - 250
3 Manticores

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS - 150
2 Thunderbolts

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS - 150
2 Thunderbolts

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Last edited by commie bob (2010-10-22 12:55:20)

Mephiston

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The thing you need to remember with guard is that the big formations are the ones that will have to go into the enemy half to take and hold objectives. The support formations are too small/fragile to do the job.

Not having enough big mobility means you end up having to throw stuff towards the enemy you'd rather not. To me that means 3 mobile companies of any type are a must. Something I'm going to regret not doing with my open war list for the weekend!

Added 10.22.2010 14:03:29:
Now of course the way you play will dictate a lot of options. If you can, get some proxies and play to see what works for you.

Jeridian

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Similar as in identical-

Truth is Epic lists are quite limited options wise, so army lists will look very, very similar with a few variations. It's testament to the Epic core rules that the game remains enjoyable and tactical despite 'common' lists.

On the other list, I'd still take a 2nd set of Thunderbolts over Hydras.

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