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Curis

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Right-o. I'm translating the wonderfully solid F-ERC Squat lists some more, and there's quite a few areas for improvement with the special rules. First up is the Colossus' Guidance Systems. The gigantic war engine is paired with an Iron Hawk Gyrocopter, which acts as a spotter for several of the Colossus' weapon systems. In a nutshell, the Colossus can fire at things out of its LoS, but in the Iron Hawk's.

Problem is that in order to represent this it needs a pair of fiddly special rules - one given to the Iron Hawk, and another given to the Colossus' eligible weapon systems. And the Colossus is the only thing in the whole game that uses this. One unit. Likewise the Cyclops has a special rule that it and only it uses. And in previous versions of the list the Goliath also had its own special rules. It's quite inelegant. It's not like the Eldar, who get the special rules Lance which applies to several weapons. It's a return to the SM2 days where things behaved in a bespoke fashion.

So, the first challenge is, can the Colossus have its special rules represented with things already in the core mechanics?

Or am I just being finnicky?

Andy

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Could the Colossus just be given the indirect fire special rule? If necessary you could simply remove the minimum range if it nerfs it slightly?

Curis

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That is an elegant solution (especially as the Indirect Fire rules explicitly state co-ordinates are provided by spotters). You'd then just abstract away the Iron Hawk and use the model ornamentally.

Problem is that then the Colossus has got to stay still to Indirect, and it needs every 15cm move it can get in order to contribute to the game. And, it also takes one less blast marker to break the formation.

Curis

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Here're the stats from the draft translation.

Added 11.30.2010 13:30:25:

hello_dave

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I suppose alternatively, and confusingly you could give the attack to the Iron Eagle specifically, but that is still faff.

How does the Iron Eagle work at the moment - does it have to maintain coherency with the Colossus??

Edit: I am sure there is some sort of spotter-upgrade that makes barrage weapons indirect in the AMTL list.

Maybe make it move 20cm to compensate??

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Last edited by hello_dave (2010-11-30 13:48:05)

Curis

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Aye. It's got Scout, and the Colossus has DC4 so they can be 20cm apart. With Skimmer it's incredibly useful spotting.

At the moment it can be used to fire the Plasma Missiles, and the Doomsday Cannon.

Evil and Chaos

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hello_dave wrote:
I am sure there is some sort of spotter-upgrade that makes barrage weapons indirect in the AMTL list.

Carapace Landing Pad, which works somewhat differently.

If you really want to keep the special rule, I'd suggest just doing it with a quick "note" on the Collossus' datafax, something like:

"The Collossus may fire its Doomsday Cannon and Plasma Missiles without LOF to the target, as long as there is an Iron Hawk in the same formation that has LOF to the target".

hello_dave

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What does Guidance systems do?

Could you just roll it up and say that anything with that special rule can still make a single move and fire indirect r something?

Rug

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I would give the attack to the Iron Eagle on the proviso that the Colusus is still alive and the target is within its ff arc.

Or simply state that LOS is from the Iron Eagle or the Colusus and range and arcs are always from the Colosus. I see no reason why the battle cannon can't fire on the LOS of the Iron Eagle...ie indirectly but not "Indirect". The Big annon and Missiles could still have indirect.

Or.... Write an army wide "spotter" rule and not have anything with "Indirect" in the whole army.... actually this is my favourite!

Both of these are short enough to go into the notes and so don't need a "special rule" section.

Mephiston

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I like the sound of Rug's spotter rule to remove indirect. It gives a unique point to the list like marker lights do for tau.

Curis

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E&C, and Rug, I like your solution of rolling it up into the notes rather than a special rule. Sort of like the SM Land Speeders, whose FF MW5+ is a note rather than a laborious special rule. I hadna thought of that.

Meph, would you be so kind as to share the current iteration of the Marker Light mechanic?

Evil and Chaos

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Curis wrote:
E&C, and Rug, I like your solution of rolling it up into the notes rather than a special rule. Sort of like the SM Land Speeders, whose FF MW5+ is a note rather than a laborious special rule. I hadna thought of that.

Just as a general list design priciple, if a special rule is likely to only ever be used by a single unit, then there's no reason to have it anywhere other than that unit's notes section.

Meph, would you be so kind as to share the current iteration of the Marker Light mechanic?

It's something like:

- Units with the Markerlights ability have markerlights.
- Any enemy formation with a unit within 30cm of an unbroken Tau unit with the markerlight ability is "markerlit".
- Any (Non Firefight) shooting at a "markerlit" enemy formation is at +1 to hit.

That's paraphrased, but you get the idea.

Mephiston

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I didn't mean use marker lights, just that it would give the square a unique point similar tomwhat marker lights does for tau.

JoeJ

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Curis wrote:
Right-o. I'm translating the wonderfully solid F-ERC Squat lists some more, and there's quite a few areas for improvement with the special rules. First up is the Colossus' Guidance Systems. The gigantic war engine is paired with an Iron Hawk Gyrocopter, which acts as a spotter for several of the Colossus' weapon systems. In a nutshell, the Colossus can fire at things out of its LoS, but in the Iron Hawk's.

Its Indirect Fire, everything you have described is an example of Indirect Fire - you absolutely dont need a new special rule just for the sake of it.

If you are worried about it not moving remeber you dont actually have to fire indirectly if you want to move - considering the weapon ranges on the thing it wont be hard to find a target - but you still have the option if you really need it of wasting something 240cms away behind a hill with a MW barrage if you want.

Evil and Chaos

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If you really want to keep the special rule

In case this was missed earlier, I'll repeat it, just to point out that I agree with Joe, and my suggestion was only one for what to do if you don't decide to do the simple thing (Use indirect fire).

EDIT:

On the other hand, this thread is about Squats, so therefore I don't greatly care.
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Last edited by Evil and Chaos (2010-11-30 22:16:07)

Rug

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The problem as I see it is that if every thing in the squat list that should have "Indirect" actually has it (all the big things and support weapons) most of the army will never move.... making a very boring static artillery army.

Could just make the Colusus, Leviathan, and Land Train direct fire only.

Evil and Chaos

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The problem as I see it is that if every thing in the squat list that should have "Indirect" actually has it (all the big things and support weapons) most of the army will never move.... making a very boring static artillery army.

That actually defines Dwarves in GW's Warhammer game very well, "static and boring".

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