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Grotsmeg

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can you see the models when you hang them or are they completely blocked.
if you can see them then surely the shop staff ar partly at fault for not noticing the really bad cases.
if you cant see inside well thats another problem.

jimmy

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they're see through blister packs - like the Infinity ones - with a card at the front and the model at the back

WarbossKurgan

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Boxed sets aren't visible. I advise opening them instore to make sure they are okay before you leave, to save a return visit later.

I've nearly finished painting my Black Orc - photos soon (but I didn't take any pre-undercoat).

Edit:

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

WarbossKurgan

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Just saw this on Twitter:

illusionarypresence

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Saul your warboss is nice, bu if your title hadnt mentioned finecast i dont think i could've told the difference.

Did see a round based figure today and was impressed with the fine detail it possessed. Not really convinced it reflects the hefty pricerise though. Its very strange stuff, almost reminds me of action men type material. It is quite bendy, and obviously very light.

Hope the paint wont crack with the flex it possesses

anathema

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Grotsmeg wrote:
anathema wrote:
mike wrote:
i think in all fairness to them, the sheer size of this launch means they had to ignore quality control just to get the number of models they needed out there on the market.

then they can quality control any bad ones that slipped through the net and come back

and introduce quality control better in the future as there is no mass demand for such a quantity of models all in one go.

least, i hope thats what happened.
They had complete control over when to launch and plenty of time to plan it. There is no excuse for a high failure rate (if its as bad as the internet says), its just bad corporate planning and execution. It appears that their casting technology isn't up to scratch and/or their QC dept. aren't doing their jobs. Either way they have no reasonable excuse. Good companies don't ignore QC.
The amount of times i have heard arguements like this in my job and it all being passed back to the project manager, basically its all human error, it happens, but a project like this, like all projects is about minimising and handling risk as well as customer needs and expectations. personally i dont blame the project manager i believe its down to the people who manage the manager who in most cases only ever read the reports and dont do the important job of testing the validity of the project reports.
England as a country is a master at corporate managerial failure.

If a project fails due to poor QC, its because the guys getting paid the big bucks didn't do a good project risk assessment. Major risks to revenue and reputation? Large amounts of miscast models getting into circulation. Ways to stop it? Ensure QC testing regime is adequate. If (and that's if it actually is as bad as reported) things are getting through it suggests they didn't trial stuff sufficiently or that their procedures aren't good enough so they need to re-train staff, increase sample sizes or bring in extra testing points.

Maybe its because I've worked in QC and that in my industry you can get shut down and people die if you release bad stuff to market, but I don't think anyone should be having sympathy or tolerating a large company failing so badly (again if the stories are true). Its only because they have a captive market that they won't suffer long term damage. Stories like this could kill a small miniature company dead.

Dr. Bizarre

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i'm thinking the new dark eldar would make some very cool Slaaneshi chosen...

Agilgar

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I really really wanted to dislike Finecast, because I resent the price increases and the fact that I cannot afford to complete the armies I have started much less start the new armies I want to start.

However, I went to the shop yesterday and saw some of the models in person, and put one together, and I have to say they are pretty awesome. They really do have sharper detail then the old metal models upon which they are based -- which may not be readily apparent in photographs, or even in real life when you are looking at them from across the table, but the level of detail will make the painting process much easier and display models much nicer.

The material in a BAZILLION times easier to de-flash and de-mold-+line than metal, and ten bazillion times easier to cut and reshape for conversions (those are actual statistics from the Federal Bureau of Hyperbole), and it bonds with itself very quickly and strongly with cyanoacrylate glue.

So, while I probably will not be purchasing any Finecast (or any other GW models) any time soon, it will only be for financial reasons, not because of the quality of the models.

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Last edited by Agilgar (2011-06-03 11:10:42)

zelophahad

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Well, that is encouraging.

Iron_Mantis

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For me every box I've seen being opened has contained flaws on them. Pretty major ones aswell such as huge craters in the face or chest of models or warped limbs etc... I'm still to be impressed by the ever so tiny increase in detail (which is a difference that will probably be lost under paint anyways) The price hike for me just isn't warrented. I even got a staffer to slip up and admit that tin costs way more than resin and then I asked him why the price hike...he didn't really have a good answer after the admission that the resin is cheaper.

Dazza

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I'm sure new lighter packs would have big savings in transport and storage costs too.

I'm still holding my own opinion until I get my mits on them myself (thinking of getting Ashag the slaughterer in finecast) but might wait a while until the quality control has kicked in better.
Interesting side by side review of metal vs resin here:

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Agilgar

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Iron_Mantis wrote:
For me every box I've seen being opened has contained flaws on them. Pretty major ones aswell such as huge craters in the face or chest of models or warped limbs etc... I'm still to be impressed by the ever so tiny increase in detail (which is a difference that will probably be lost under paint anyways) The price hike for me just isn't warrented. I even got a staffer to slip up and admit that tin costs way more than resin and then I asked him why the price hike...he didn't really have a good answer after the admission that the resin is cheaper.

I agree that the price rise is unwarranted, and that any attempt on the part of any GW employee is ingeniousness bullshit. However, I would not blame the employees, they are just saying what they need to say to keep their jobs, and -- speaking as someone who has had many jobs in retail -- it is often quite difficult to do that with any sort of integrity. Blame the system, not the people.

Of course resin "should be" cheaper, but GW's market strategy is to raise prices to push the idea that their products are of superior quality to the competition, and in many ways they are. Of course we all know that they are not superior to the extent that their higher prices are meant to imply, but the strategy is not aimed at us, it is aimed at people less familiar with the gaming miniatures market.

So, while I strongly disapprove of this market strategy, I understand it. My response to this abominable policy is to stop purchasing GW products until it changes. I will continue to paint the models I already has in my studio, and I will continue playing GW games -- though I will try to use other companies models as much as possible to make a point. In addition, I am playing KOW and Infinity a lot more.

As for defects, I did not see any in any of the blisters on the shelf or in any of the models that customers were assembling in the shop.

Ironbark

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I bought a fine cast skull taker, he had a bubble on his sword had which was remedied easily enough with a little green stuff.

Stompzilla

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Skull-taker? Really?! *Worst model ever*

skcuzzlebumm

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Ironbark wrote:
I bought a fine cast skull taker, he had a bubble on his sword had which was remedied easily enough with a little green stuff.

Yeah but the point is if you are paying for something that expensive and for a cheaper product (Resin over tin) then you shuoldn't have to green stuff a fault. It should just be good, end of, for that price.

Agilgar

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Ironbark wrote:
I bought a fine cast skull taker, he had a bubble on his sword had which was remedied easily enough with a little green stuff.
Yeah but the point is if you are paying for something that expensive and for a cheaper product (Resin over tin) then you shuoldn't have to green stuff a fault.

Why not? With metal one always had huge gaps to green-stuff over, often distorting the shape of the model. Having just a few bubbles to fill in is a major improvement.

Ironbark

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I agree with you Neil it should have been perfect but decided I couldn't be arsed taking it back which is an hour out of my day when the problem was fixed in 5 mins. If the bubble had been in the middle of his face that would have been different.

Ironbark

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Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Lol

Davespaceman

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If something melts because it's too warm from the English weather then there must be something wrong

Dazza

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Yup although it looks like air bubbles within the model (in the leg in this case) are making parts even thinner and weaker.
Seems like its a bit of a lottery whether you get a duff model or not

WarbossKurgan

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skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Yeah but the point is if you are paying for something that expensive and for a cheaper product (Resin over tin) then you shuoldn't have to green stuff a fault. It should just be good, end of, for that price.

I'm not defending the price increases as they are just stupid in the current climate, but...

Just because the resin raw-material is cheaper than tin it doesn't make the product cheaper. They are more likely priced according to the relationship between predicted sales and cost of development. Finecast models aren't just any old resin poured into the old metals molds. They must have done a fair bit of R&D to settle on the stuff.

Grotsmeg

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yep its exactly the same with medicine, the high cost is in the development, once they are developed they are cheap to make, but the sales cost has to cater for the money laid out in development.

anathema

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Except in the pharmaceutical industry, competition drives down prices. Once a patent has run out the market price drops like a stone and your profit margin with it because of generics manufacturers. Regardless of R+D costs. GW obviously don't feel like there's much competition and that they have a captive market to raise prices in this way.

Added 06.07.2011 06:52:15:

WarbossKurgan wrote:
skcuzzlebumm wrote:
Yeah but the point is if you are paying for something that expensive and for a cheaper product (Resin over tin) then you shuoldn't have to green stuff a fault. It should just be good, end of, for that price.
I'm not defending the price increases as they are just stupid in the current climate, but...

Just because the resin raw-material is cheaper than tin it doesn't make the product cheaper. They are more likely priced according to the relationship between predicted sales and cost of development. Finecast models aren't just any old resin poured into the old metals molds. They must have done a fair bit of R&D to settle on the stuff.

Public perception cares not for R+D costs. In fact the customer only cares about getting a quality product for a fair price. Its up to GW to minimise its research and operating costs through efficiency savings, not to pass them on to the customer. Regardless, Finecast will have been brought in because somewhere down the line it starts saving money. In 5 years time they'll be saving raw materials costs and the R+D costs will long have been eaten.

Dasyatis

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I would imagine the fact that resin is harder to paint strip than metal, effectively killing the second hand market, should help them reclaim the cost.

Agilgar

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Dasyatis wrote:
I would imagine the fact that resin is harder to paint strip than metal, effectively killing the second hand market, should help them reclaim the cost.

I doubt that the slightly increased difficulty in stripping will significantly effect the second-hand market, and if it did, I doubt the lack of a second-hand market would significantly increase sales for GW.

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