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wilsonian

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OK firstly I don't want to sound like some old timer complaining about the youth today (hell I'm only 29) but recently I've been feeling a bit distant with regards to the hobby.

I could moan all day about GW's pricing policy or the fact I haven't been able to get a game in for some time (my own fault really due to the hours I work). But has anyone had a feeling of why am I bothering with this?

A few days ago I packed up my models in preparation for the impending house purchase me and the missus are making and it suddenly dawned on me - I have a metric sh!t load of models I've lovingly built, half arsed painted and never actually fought with.

I think half the problem is not using them for what their sold as - tokens in a game. I know at least one other member on here builds a lot of units but rarely games - is this anyone else's problem?

Do people on here still go to 40k vets night or has 5th ed made many people move away?

Grotsmeg

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5th ed has stopped my from playing 40k and pretty much stopped collecting 40k armies. I tried to put my prejudice aside last year and start afresh with the new Dark Eldar but found the game too easy to get into a one sided loop and the niggles in the rules and the boring missions annoyed me.

I am enjoying WHFB much more though and chafe that i dont get as many games as i would like, but thats cause i have other interests and have to balance it all.
but it does seem that FO especially is very quiet. I think Toy Soldiers are still loosing ground to console games as they are expanding massively in capability, luckily they seem to be stuck in the FPS mould, but nothing beats a good game of Toy soldiers.
But i do hanker back and miss some of the games i used to play pre-FO and tourney crazy when it was more about playing a fun game and using a stylised army that fit a theme rather than clone tournament efficient armies.
My favourite games were always ones where i learnt something or something weird happened, and not the ones where i totally mashed my opponent.

40k has had all the skill taking out of it, hopefully it will come back in 6th ed, but not if the games designers lose sight of the difference between looking good and playing good.

Jeridian

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What Richard said, spot on! (well aside from I didn't try to get back in with DE).

Play Epic, and try to make it to Stockport Gaming Centre...

And yeah, I like Warhammer 8th Ed a lot too but never have the time or opponents to get a game in.

Stompzilla

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Yep.

5th ed pretty much killed it. I think there are games played in GW though. Mike'd be the man to ask.

I know we've had this conversation before but I really do think you'd like Epic, although it's strength is the gameplay rather than the modelling side of things.

jimmy

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I play everything but GW nowadays (apart from Bloodbowl), I think I just got bored and fancied a change - thus my switch into more complex skirmish games and larger scale (FoW)

wilsonian

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The one game I really do enjoy is necromunda. I can't get over how sweet it is to build and nurturer a gang. Only down side is the lack of models/spares for any noobies.

I play everything but GW nowadays

See I've heard this before. In fact I was at a local indie store about 6-12 months ago and they basically told me to abandon 40k and get into warmachine or summat... I don't like pushy sales staff (one major reason I avoid GW stores - sorry chaps). However what have you done with your 40k? Are they packed away for another day or sold on?

I know we've had this conversation before but I really do think you'd like Epic, although it's strength is the gameplay rather than the modelling side of things.

I have been tempted by Epic but never even had a game never mind looked at creating a list.

I think I miss the old days (4th ed) when I would pop along to the store, play a game or two then hang around for a few pints. moving jobs and not being close to the city center anymore has kinda killed it for me.

Also why are people going to the stockport store these days? better evening or easier for transport?

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Last edited by wilsonian (2012-03-13 19:05:17)

jimmy

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I sold my 40k off except my Orcs and Guard as they are pretty generic.

People go to the Gaming Centre in Stockport because a) they have a million* tables, b) you don't have to play GW games or what the staff tell you can play c) it's open late (11ish)

WarbossKurgan

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I still play Warhammer and Mordheim, I don't play any non-GW wargames at the moment, but I haven't played WH40K in about two years. It wasn't 5th edition that killed it for me though... it was 8th edition! Warhammer has been transformed and its more fun than ever. I'm hoping that 6th edition 40K will do the same for that game that 8th did for Fantasy.

zelophahad

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Ditto what Kurgan said. Plus having too much 'life' going on. The game I'm playing and loving most at the moment though is Dreadfleet. Tournament types will probably hate it's unpredictability but for me it's a wonderful story-generator.

Grotsmeg

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There is something about Malifaux that doesnt quite hit it for me. I think these small skirmish games seem like a poor mans role playing game to me.
I want to either play toy soldiers or role playing and the game in the middle just isnt my bag, hence why mordheim etc also hasnt got me going.

wilsonian

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People go to the Gaming Centre in Stockport because a) they have a million* tables, b) you don't have to play GW games or what the staff tell you can play c) it's open late (11ish)

Is the gaming center part of marauder games? I take it flame on at the GW manchester store has ceased to be?

jimmy

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yes, marauder games is part of the gaming centre, it moved to a large mill off hallam road in stockport.

I can only speak personally, but I've only been in GW manchester about twice in the past year - to buy some paint.

wilsonian

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Such a shame that GW have killed off a game so quickly with the release of 5th ed.

Plus it's not like in the IT world when Microsoft released Vista. People didn't like it they just stayed with XP and MS didn't mind (in fact it encouraged them to make 7 better!). However I wonder if GW stores will let you play 4th ed

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Last edited by wilsonian (2012-03-14 10:57:25)

Ade

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For me 40k does not do it for me anymore, I think i started to get annoyed with it in 4th and then 5th killed it flat dead (played two games of 5th total I think). From there picked up Flame of War and more recently Malifaux and Infinity (with a passing intrest in other platoon level games but with no real oponents these have gone nowhere).

I play at Staockport because as a driver it is more convenient than Manchester the parking is free, and I can play what I want (also no playing on the floor outside the shop either) the hobby is not dead to me but GW seems to be on the whole. The last GW minis I bought was a Dark Eldar Grotesque to use as a Desolation Engine in Malifaux and before that Space Hulk.

skcuzzlebumm

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I still really enjoy 40k, for me 5th Ed was the change that 4th ed needed, just like now 5th ed is getting stale and I am waiting on 6th ed.

I can't comment on how busy or quiet the store is these days as I haven't being there in 3 years since moving to York.

But tournament attendance amongst Flame On hasn't really change all that much, some people left but others joined, so certainly 40k still has a strong appeal.

However what has certainly happened is a lot more Flame On players have moved from 40k or WFB as their 'core' game into other games, with many that are none GW and so exclude gaming in the store; Epic, FoW and Malifaux all seem to be very popular amongst the Manchester crowd these days. For me it is H/WM over in York.

Money wise, yes GW has become more and more of a joke. Especially with all their Finecast shite that is poorer quality than the metal counterparts but 30% more expensive, I mean who are they kidding? For that reason apart from my generic marines, I don't think I have used a stock GW model for anything in the past 3 years. It is either counts-as or it is from an alternative miniature company.

wilsonian

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I've always tried to get the cheapest models and really only used the stores from time to time (last major purchase from a store was my BA dread the other week so I could get the free 25th birthday badge they were giving away.

That being said I do enjoy my armies but feel their getting less and less used over the years.... hell my last game was with Ray at mine about a year ago!

Stompzilla

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Ade's reasons are similar to my own tbh. I started playing Epic because I don't like 5th and the feeling of getting ripped off. I've often pondered having occasional games of 4th and use all my nicely painted and modelled miniatures that I do still love. However because the epic game system is so good I always want to spend my rare gaming time playing epic and the thought of going back to 40K's complicated rules but simple tactics and standing there for half an hour doing nothing but rolling saves, taking models off and hoping my opponent misses kind of makes me shudder.

I think you're wrong about 5th ed 40K too. Although it's proved unpopular with the flame on vets who already had several established armies (And hence having to pay to update said armies and again when the new codex came out when it's easier and cheaper to go elsewhere now that we know the wargaming scene a bit better having been involved with it for a number of years) 40K 5th ed is still popular and has drawn quite a few new people to the hobby albiet of a younger demographic (Hey, it's where the money is and they're not a charity).

Apologies for the longest sentence in the world!

If you do fancy popping down to the NWGC on a Tues night I'm sure one of us will be happy to intro you on a game of epic. I know it doesn't solve your model dilema but it may help satisfy your geek-lust and you can have a look at some of the nicely painted (Especially if Chris is in!) armies to see if it doesn't float your boat. There is a really good, friendly tournament scene and some fairly active internet forums (As well as new development). Failing that, you can have a giggle, a beer and try and talk us all/folk at the gaming centre (Who are a good group of people too) into starting a Necromunda campaign.

Added 03.14.2012 12:31:28:
Oh! You could probably get a game of 40K there regulary on a Wed night but possibly even a Tues night so you can have a bevvie with the lads.

You could try putting out a challenge on here or going to the NWGC website (Wed is Marauder club night) - I've seen a few FOers down there playing 40K and you never know someone might even want to play 4th ed (Richard maybe?)

wilsonian

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I think with 5th ed I'm disgruntled with the rules and don't fancy getting rid of my collection but then that annoys me that I have ££££ worth of models just sitting their on a shelf!

Grotsmeg

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wilsonian wrote:
Such a shame that GW have killed off a game so quickly with the release of 5th ed.

Plus it's not like in the IT world when Microsoft released Vista. People didn't like it they just stayed with XP and MS didn't mind (in fact it encouraged them to make 7 better!). However I wonder if GW stores will let you play 4th ed

AH but in the IT world as well vista was so bad the corporate take up was almost non existent which forced windows 7 to be release earlier than originally planned.

Not quite the same with 40k but i have heard that the 6th ed release is also earlier than originally planned.

I dont agree that kids is where the money is, the most money is actually in 18-30 year old living at home (cause they cant afford their own house anymore!) They havent got enough to buy a house but have plenty of disposable income, much more than little timmies parents, who will quite happily help buy their first army or 2 but not a whole gaming environment.
Yes get the kids in but only to keep them once they hit college.

Personally I think they really develop the american family style route and look at engaging more father - son gaming (or uncle nephew in my case) Engage the parents and the kids and they open up a much bigger pot than the child alone. This would require creating a game that is simple and challenging to all ages, and a better game overall, also this model is generationally supportive and would repeat with each generation. simples...

Dazza

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zelophahad wrote:
Ditto what Kurgan said. Plus having too much 'life' going on. The game I'm playing and loving most at the moment though is Dreadfleet. Tournament types will probably hate it's unpredictability but for me it's a wonderful story-generator.

I agree, its a great pick up game. it's random nature is what makes it enjoyable as it completely levels any tactical advantage and adds a fab narrative.

Really enjoyed the game last night Phil, see you next time

anathema

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Grotsmeg wrote:
There is something about Malifaux that doesnt quite hit it for me. I think these small skirmish games seem like a poor mans role playing game to me.
I want to either play toy soldiers or role playing and the game in the middle just isnt my bag, hence why mordheim etc also hasnt got me going.

Malifaux is nothing like an RPG. Its probably more similar to what I understand H/WM to be, as its all about the combos, interactions and synergy in your crew. Most of the actions taking place during the games stretch the fiction beyond breaking point, but its really designed as a tight game with an attached universe than even attempting to fit an RPG element into the gameplay. There's more role-playing in the likes of 40K and WHFB to be honest, with the background being so linked to each race's character. In Malifaux, its designed around factions, so you theoretically don't even know which Master you'll be playing against, never mind the huge differences you can get in crew make-up.

On the main point, many people here have stopped playing 40K with the advent of 5th ed but many continued. I can't say I miss it from a gaming perspective at all; FoW has much more tactical depth (I'm still nowhere near consistently beating the big boys at it, whereas I was in 4th ed 40K) and Malifaux gives me a very nice change of pace with a skirmish level game with some very good mechanics and tight rules.

On a visual note as well, 40K just looks ridiculous to me these days. With GW deliberately inflating army sizes and model count, every 40K game I see looks vastly overcrowded on a 6x4 table and really lacks the visual impact and especially the impressive terrain possible with smaller scales. Skirmish or ranked games can get away with being in 28mm, not 40K IMO.

I've yet to try Dreadfleet, but I've pretty much gone for board games as a "third system". There's some cracking titles out there and they range from much randomness to pure strategy in terms of player input. Hmm, this makes me want to have a crack at Chaos in the Old World again. Any fancy it? Darren? Si?

hello_dave

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anathema wrote:
On a visual note as well, 40K just looks ridiculous to me these days. With GW deliberately inflating army sizes and model count, every 40K game I see looks vastly overcrowded on a 6x4 table and really lacks the visual impact and especially the impressive terrain possible with smaller scales. Skirmish or ranked games can get away with being in 28mm, not 40K IMO.

Especially when (as Curis pointed out I believe) that taking the model size as the ground scale in 40k a 6x4 table is about the same size as a football pitch.

WarbossKurgan

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wilsonian wrote:
Such a shame that GW have killed off a game so quickly with the release of 5th ed.

Quickly?
6th edition is rumoured to be out in the summer!

Killed off?
Not at all. Regardless if whether we play it, 40k is bigger than ever: it was on the BBC news this week.

wilsonian

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On a visual note as well, 40K just looks ridiculous to me these days. With GW deliberately inflating army sizes and model count, every 40K game I see looks vastly overcrowded on a 6x4 table and really lacks the visual impact and especially the impressive terrain possible with smaller scales.

I whole heartedly agree with this observation I think thats why you have the option at out flanking, reserves etc in the game to avoid a "traffic jam" of models. However if you do load up on the terrain it is very easy to filter tanks down certain paths - and if they dont then their not in the fight too much.

kong

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I thought that 5th Ed was a huge improvement over 4th Ed but like Neil am looking forward to 6th Ed simply for the change.

Codex balance is perhaps my biggest complaint. Price creep is annoying but all games seem expensive these days.

Some of my regular gaming opponents have fallen in love with Warmachine but whilst I play it, it does not ignite my fire and if you think 40K is bad for copy and paste, Warmachine is terrible for it and al the tournaments seem obsessed with timed turns

My biggest gripe would be the ETC and Rankings. Now I know a lot of you play at the ETC and I have no problem if that is what you want to do, but it is not my idea of a good time. I spent several years playing and judging MTG all over the world and if I want to play uber competitively I would simply go back to that. I do not think that the Warhammer rules suit uber competitive play

The ETC waac attitude combined with Rankings have taken a lot of fun out of events for me to the extent that I now solely play events for fun at Throne of Skulls events. I am aware that a lot of people don't like the new format Throne of Skulls events or the price of them , but for me it is a weekend away with Em, a meal at Mebsaab and a venue that is world class (although I do wish they would improve the terrain) for some fun games of Toy Soldiers where winning is not the be all and end all

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Last edited by kong (2012-03-17 17:16:50)

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