Flame On Forum

Dazza

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Interesting little article

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Personally I'm quite excited about this whole 3d printing malarky, the possibilities are staggering

jimmy

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yeah, I've been looking at 3d printers, but they're still in the realms of 6-700 quid, there is a new one coming out in the states for ~500usd, but they don't have a European distributor and it's end up being about 600quid after everything which is a bit rich.

Godfather Viktor

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The lawyer was nearly right about the tank not infringing copyright.
Unfortunately, there are so many Imperial Eagles on it that the tank infringes copyright.
The Imperial Eagle device is indeed copyrighted, just look at the small prints on any GW publication.

But the whole idea of 3D scanning and printing will be a boon for the hobbysts once it becomes affordable.
It'll be just a matter of not being blatant and sharing everything on the net saying 'look how good I am, how well I've copied a GW piece!'

Steve54

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Good luck to GW trying to defend their claimed copyrights - like arrows, chevrons, 2 headed eagles etc

kong

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If GW cannot defend their copyrights and IP then forget the game

It will be a terrible day for the hobbyist

zelophahad

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kong wrote:
If GW cannot defend their copyrights and IP then forget the game

It will be a terrible day for the hobbyist

I fear that may be right.

anathema

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kong wrote:
If GW cannot defend their copyrights and IP then forget the game

It will be a terrible day for the hobbyist

Yeah, because historical wargaming (you can't Trademark a Sherman Tank or Roman Soldier) is absolutely dead in the water what with all that competition...

If GW couldn't rely on their Trademarks and other IP rights for their universes then they might have to compete on rules and model quality and overall value. As mentioned in the comments to the article, if it becomes economical for punters to buy a 3D printer and the raw materials in order to knock out copies for personal use rather than buying GW product then GW sales will be impacted. If its the preserve of the mass producers only, GW won't suffer too badly.

Dr. Bizarre

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Maybe it's the wake-up call they need for lower prices...

WarbossKurgan

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anathema wrote:
kong wrote:
If GW cannot defend their copyrights and IP then forget the game

It will be a terrible day for the hobbyist
Yeah, because historical wargaming (you can't Trademark a Sherman Tank or Roman Soldier) is absolutely dead in the water what with all that competition...

If GW couldn't rely on their Trademarks and other IP rights for their universes then they might have to compete on rules and model quality and overall value. As mentioned in the comments to the article, if it becomes economical for punters to buy a 3D printer and the raw materials in order to knock out copies for personal use rather than buying GW product then GW sales will be impacted. If its the preserve of the mass producers only, GW won't suffer too badly.

While its true you can't copyright a Roman soldier, if I sculpt a Roman soldier I own the copyright to my sculpt. If you scan and 3D print my sculpt without permission you are infringing that copyright. GW has the right to defend its IP against infringments. Theres no way it could be considered "fair use" to copy a Space Marine - its not like making a copy of a CD to keep in your car!

anathema

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Very true. But the article was about GW making spurious copyright claims about a kid who made IG inspired creations of his own and then posted said creations (of which he owns the copyright for) for anyone to use. He didn't copy anything.

If anyone is able to cheaply print out their own design of "flamethrower carrying Space Warrior" or "Space Orc" then GW would be in exactly the same position as historical games companies; having to rely on quality rather than exclusivity. As it stands it would be interesting to know exactly which IP rights would use to attack derivative 3D works (especially as much as their work is derivative in concept anyway). If I'm not marketing my designs using their Trademarks and its not an exact copy, it would depend on each individual design for copyright infringement.

Piracy would be a whole separate issue and there certainly lies a multitude of big headaches for GW. Just one example is that of bits suppliers selling sprues. If people just need a sprue or two to turn out regiments of infantry by copying parts, they aren't necessarily going to pay for multiple regiment boxes.

Its not like 3D copying is going to have a digital fingeprint like filesharing either so enforcement isn't going to go to the personal use level like with copying films and games. It'll be more like home taping where one kid goes and buys a tank and then lends it to his mates to copy.

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Last edited by anathema (2012-06-03 16:09:09)

WarbossKurgan

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anathema wrote:
Very true. But the article was about GW making spurious copyright claims about a kid who made IG inspired creations of his own and then posted said creations (of which he owns the copyright for) for anyone to use. He didn't copy anything.

A very good point.

anathema wrote:
If anyone is able to cheaply print out their own design of "flamethrower carrying Space Warrior" or "Space Orc" then GW would be in exactly the same position as historical games companies; having to rely on quality rather than exclusivity. As it stands it would be interesting to know exactly which IP rights would use to attack derivative 3D works (especially as much as their work is derivative in concept anyway). If I'm not marketing my designs using their Trademarks and its not an exact copy, it would depend on each individual design for copyright infringement.

Just like all the brilliant "conversion bitz" makers - Puppet Wars, MaxMini, Kromlech, etc.
GW doesn't like them but they can't do anything about it.

anathema wrote:
Piracy would be a whole separate issue and there certainly lies a multitude of big headaches for GW. Just one example is that of bits suppliers selling sprues. If people just need a sprue or two to turn out regiments of infantry by copying parts, they aren't necessarily going to pay for multiple regiment boxes.

Its not like 3D copying is going to have a digital fingeprint like filesharing either so enforcement isn't going to go to the personal use level like with copying films and games. It'll be more like home taping where one kid goes and buys a tank and then lends it to his mates to copy.

So...
Scan-and-print any manufacturer's model = Piracy = Bad for the company and bad for us.
Home-brew-design-and-print additional bits for GW models = good for us, for GW... a pain they have learned to live with so far...

anathema

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It really depends on how easy it is to design and print new designs for the latter to become a problem or not. If someone like me can easily knock up something that looks reasonably like a rhino or space marine then there's a bit of a problem.

I still see 3D copying for personal use being the biggest problem for them and that all depends on the price comparison. If its cheap enough to do at current GW pricing levels then people will do it. This may be actually good for the consumer as GW will be forced to realistically assess their ridiculous pricing model.

Its like tax avoidance. If you get a significant gain from investing in a 3D printer and the raw materials in order to knock up your own army then people will do it. If they lower prices so that you'll only save a couple of quid that way, people won't bother with the hassle and will just buy direct.

As it stands, historical miniatures are in a much better place for this scenario as their prices are reasonably low anyway. GW aren't so much.

There's also the hilarious prospect of copies of Finecast models being sturdier than the originals....

WarbossKurgan

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anathema wrote:
There's also the hilarious prospect of copies of Finecast models being sturdier than the originals....

jimmy

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WarbossKurgan wrote:
Just like all the brilliant "conversion bitz" makers - Puppet Wars, MaxMini, Kromlech, etc.
GW doesn't like them but they can't do anything about it.

Someone tell GW that - the way they're constantly going after Chapterhouse Studios

WarbossKurgan

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Chapterhouse always use GW names for things (Tyranids, Eldar, etc.), so they are sailing pretty close to the wind! The others just use "Space Knight", "future trooper" and the generic "Orc" or whatever. None of them attract as much ire from the lawyers at gee dub.

Grotsmeg

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Copyright is a time lapse law, typically 25 or 50 years dependant upon the media, however parts of the sherman tank would have been protected by registered designs. This also would have a lapse time.
So although originally when produced the design of the sherman tanks design could have been protected that would have lapsed years ago and therefore is now in the public domain and can no longer be protected.
GW products are all new and there interpretation of common mythology so therefore orcs goblins elves and suchlike cannot be owned by GW, things like the eagle insignia and Space Marine armour, bolter etc can be protected.
IP law is also country specific so you have to register the product in all the countries you wish to protect your goods.
Of course Countries have some interesting interpretations of western law and therefore you could create copys of these products in whatever medium in none registered countries without and problems at all, untill you try and export them.

anathema

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But each new model of a Sherman made attracts its own copyright so you can't directly copy and print Sherman models, you'd have to design a new one.

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GW goes anti digital

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