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I know, I know, this is the Epic forum...

Since we're likely to mostly play one another, if we do have an occassional dick about with 40K though and since I don't want to get shouted down by outraged members of the hardcore 40K community I thought I'd keep this just between us for the time being.

So having a look through the rules, they actually seem quite decent (For 40K). Still not perfect though, so I'd like to propose the following small changes:

I'd like to modify snapfire/overwatch from always fire at BS1 to shoot at -2 BS. It doesn't seem fair that guard lose 2 points of BS but Orks and some nids only lose 1. Why would you not move and shoot Ork heavy weapons for only a 1/3 less chance of hitting the target, especially since they have such a high rate of fire?

Transports suck ass. I'd prefer to up the transported range to 12" from 6" and disembark within 2" of the vehicle (Not access point) to actually make mech armies worthwhile (Sooooo much cooler in a sci-fi battle game having mechanised infantry). FWs in devilfish, Storm troopers in Valkyries, Guardsmen in Chimeras, aspect warriors, Space marines in rhinos etc in wave serpents etc. Zooom, zooom!

I'd like to modify the terrain and LOS rules slightly so that area terrain blocks LOS from one side to the other. Makes for a better game, encourages more maneuvering and means models don't get damaged on stupid terrain.

I'm not very interested in the terrain stuff, special buildings etc but this can be left down to player's discretion. How about Flyers and special terrain/fortifications are opponent's permission?

Thoughts? Everyone happy with these house rules?

Jeridian

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I'm still waiting for my copy of the rulebook so don't know enough about Flyers, etc to make an informed decision yet.

I agree with the Snap Fire (it's not really Overwatch, even if they use term, TBH) change to a To Hit modifier though.

jimmy

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If they're -2 B's does that mean orks can't shoot as they would go to bs 0?

Or do you have hitting on 7s etc like fantasy?

Stompzilla

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7 to hit.

Call it -2 to hit, rather than -2 to BS

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Last edited by Stompzilla (2012-07-30 21:09:06)

wilsonian

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As mentioned in our emails - I don't mind the snap fire change or the transport rule. What are peoples thoughts about the LoS and terrain?

blessed knight

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to be honest, i think the BS1 is good enough really. start adding higher BS to the mix and some armies may as well not bother as close combat is out of the question.

I'd feel sorry for ork and nid players, it'd probably unbalance the game towards Tau/Eldar. (would you really want to charge at a fire dragon unit?) even Daemons/chaos could struggle in some cases.

Don't shootier armies typically get more shots anyway? with much better weaponry?

ork hvy weapons aren't really much of an issue as they are mostly assault weapons anyway and are usually the ones doing the charging.

The 6" disembark from a tank also provides quite a boost to the game too. add to that the longer charge ranges mean the game is much more spaced out anyway.

The increased speed given to vehicles by moving flat out really ups the tactical uses of transport.
basic tanks being able to move flat out 18"
fast vehicles can go 24" flat out
Fast Skimmers can go 30"
flyer transports can move 60"

the loss of disembarking after a 12" move isn't that bad.as transported units will usually be in position by their second turn anyway.

FWs in devilfish, flat out 18" with 4+ jink
Storm troopers in Valkyries, flat out 60" with 4+ evade
Guardsmen in Chimeras, flat out 18"
aspect warriors in wave serpents 30" with 4+ jink,
Space marines in rhinos flat out 18"

all of them have good transported speed and only need 25% covered to gain a cover save

speaking of cover...if you look at GW's terrain in most shots now, most of it is LOS blocking. it's really on a personal collection basis really. most 3rd/4th Ed players had fairly open terrain using the area terrain rules from those editions. 5th Ed saw a move to WYSIWYG terrain. if you don't fancy modelling different density terrain, it's not that big a deal though i think it can make for a much more visual table. I just bulked out my trees on each base. keeps the terrain see through but passes on cover to the big stuff, whilst smaller models may end up out of LOS

Stompzilla

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Each Ork with a shoota costs 5pts. Orks have loads of dakka. Overwatch is hardly going to take down a full unit of Orks on the charge, even at 5+ to hit. Adjusting snapfire to a modifier simply evens out the rule and makes it as effective for one army as it is for another.

The new transport rules are really pants. Not only can you not assault out of a transport at all (Even with the 4th ed rule of disembarking before the transport moved), you also can't get out of a transport if it moved more than 6". How the hell are you supposed to get an assault unit into position if you have to wait 2 turns - one of them out of the transport?

Additionally fire and maneuver becomes difficult and transports pretty much impossible to use properly. I just don't see the point of a transport that can't move troops faster than they can walk.

Maneuver makes for a good game. True LOS and these transport ruless make tactical maneuver much less effective and much harder to do and the game suffers as a result.

Jeridian

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I agree with Terrain, having area blocking behind and can see into 6" in things like forests and ruins just saves pointless faffing and tediousness.

But on the transport rules I'm leaning towards Lee's position. This is going off what people have said here, still waiting for rules Maelstrom...

The Snap Fire and Terrain rules are tweaks that make simpler or slightly alter the rules. Changing transports back to that has a massive effect on how the game plays and what armies can do.

I'll elaborate when I can get near a computer. I'd also like to try a few games without House Rules first to see how it works out.

Mephiston

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Well shooting allocation is epic like now so why not apply the same terrain rules

I had one flick through the book and watched about an hour of a game, doesn't look too bad to me in a friendly none tournament setting to be honest.

Stompzilla

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Jeridian wrote:
I agree with Terrain, having area blocking behind and can see into 6" in things like forests and ruins just saves pointless faffing and tediousness.

But on the transport rules I'm leaning towards Lee's position. This is going off what people have said here, still waiting for rules Maelstrom...

The Snap Fire and Terrain rules are tweaks that make simpler or slightly alter the rules. Changing transports back to that has a massive effect on how the game plays and what armies can do.

I'll elaborate when I can get near a computer. I'd also like to try a few games without House Rules first to see how it works out.

Fair point I suppose about the transports. Can we not adjust the current rule slightly to disembarking being measured from the vehicle rather than the access point. If your vehicles happen to be modelled in a crappy way (Re: Waveserpents) then you really don't get much from transports at all. Seems a bit arbitrary to get less out of your vehicles, simly because of the way it's modelled/sculpted.

wilsonian

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I don't mind either but tbh modern day tanks have access to the rear and sides rather than the front so it's hardly a modelling issue. The only real units I can think that have frontal doors are assault units for beach storming duties while in 40k any unit that is an assault tank has a front opening door - well most anyway.

Jeridian

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Having had a glimpse at the rulebook the Snap Shots rule is more far reaching than a Stand and Shoot charge reaction.

-Heavy Weapons can Snap Fire if they move.
-Falling Back troops can Snap Fire.
-Vehicles moving 6" can Snap Fire with all weapons other than the main weapon.
-Vehicles moving 12" can Snap Fire with all weapons.

Considering a 5+ To Hit roughly doubles the number of hits of a 6+ this makes BS 4 armies very powerful compared to BS 3 armies. Arguably the BS 3 armies have more bodies and so more shots. So I don't know. I think the large number of situations where Snap Fire is allowed tips it quite heavily in the BS 4 armies favour. And Twin-Linked becomes more powerful in either case.

wilsonian

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Yeah but armies that have a poor BS such have orks have a larger fire rate on their weapons to make up for this. Add the snap shot rule and they still have the upper hand over a standard TAC squad of marines.Granted some units have Twin-linked - but these are normally found on tanks etc.

Jeridian

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Marines firing Snap Shots under the house rule hit 33% of the time.
Orks hit 9% of the time.

So the Orks would need to fire three times as many shots to compare.

I'd put my bet on the Marines in a Snap Shot firefight.

Stompzilla

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You get 3 Orks for the price of 1 marine though, so pt for pt they get 3 x as many shots.

I don't see a problem with marines moving and shooting HWs at 5+. There's so few of them in the army due to it's small size and restrictive nature that IMO it balances out quite nicely.

Jeridian

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Fair enough, we'll see. I only really have Space Marines left in my collection, with a small allied possibility of Sisters of Battle. Both benefit greatly from the house rule.

Dr. Bizarre

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You can't assault on turn one anyway, so you'd have to wait a turn. (sorry for butting in)

Abyssal Terror

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As an ork speed freak army I am worried by this changes to snap fire and transports... however I have not played enough games to really know the ins and outs. Terrain I am fine with, it is an abstract game after all.

Snap Fire will be mostly useless in my army now, I have very few guns compared to other ork units that can snap fire, granted I have lots of assault weapons but defensively I will be really punished by it. I should be pointed out that as far as I know an ork that is firing in "overwatch" only fires 1 shot, even though he has an assault 2 weapons? If I am wrong then fine, just say. But if this is the case then that normal firepower is reduced by half, then reduced even more to 7's to hit. While a marine squad gets better. Never mind the fact they have better guns, they can double their chances to hit, while ork half it. Marines are a good army as it is with plenty of things in their favour, nevermind all the new toys they can get out of GW.

I am just saying I am wary of these house rules as they do affect my army in a dual sense. I am will to try them out, but I think at the same time I think playing normal rules for a bit might also benefit all then adjust some.

WarbossKurgan

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Abyssal Terror wrote:
I should be pointed out that as far as I know an ork that is firing in "overwatch" only fires 1 shot, even though he has an assault 2 weapons? If I am wrong then fine, just say.

I can't find anything that says you only get one shot. It says that you use all the normal shooting rules appart from Ballistic Skill...

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Last edited by WarbossKurgan (2012-09-04 17:43:25)

Abyssal Terror

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What are nirmal rules :p

I still stand by space marines doubling their chances to hit a bit much

WarbossKurgan

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Damn phone keyboard!

Having played a couple games and hit nothing with vast volumes of snapfire (using BS1 for everyone) I don't see the need to houserule it at all.

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Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Jeridian wrote:

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

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Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content.

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Abyssal Terror wrote:

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

Re: Proposed 40K 6th ed House Rules

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